Legislature(2007 - 2008)BUTROVICH 205

02/02/2008 11:00 AM Senate RESOURCES


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Audio Topic
11:07:42 AM Start
11:10:48 AM Bg Group Presentation by David Keane, Vice President, Government Affairs
11:42:09 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
Uniform Rule 23 Waived
+ Presentation: ANS Gas Development TELECONFERENCED
David Keane, VP Government Affairs, BG
Group
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              SENATE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        February 2, 2008                                                                                        
                           11:07 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Charlie Huggins, Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Bert Stedman, Vice Chair                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Bill Wielechowski - via teleconference                                                                                  
Senator Thomas Wagoner                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lesil McGuire                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hollis French                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Presentation: ANS Gas Development by David Keane, Vice                                                                          
President, Government Affairs, BG                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to consider                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
David Keane, Vice President                                                                                                     
Government Affairs                                                                                                              
BG Group                                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT: Gave presentation on ANS gas development.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CHARLIE  HUGGINS  called  the  Senate  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at  11:07:42 AM. Present at  the call                                                             
to  order  were Senators  Green,  Stevens,  Stedman, Wagoner  and                                                               
Huggins. Senator Wielechowski was present via teleconference.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
^BG Group Presentation by David Keane, Vice President,                                                                        
Government Affairs                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
11:10:48 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR HUGGINS  said the committee  had invited  BG Group to  do a                                                               
presentation on  its LNG  business in Alaska.  He said  thanks to                                                               
former  Governor  Hickel the  Resources  Committee  was going  to                                                               
retroactively  look at  a course  of action  for Canada,  LNG and                                                               
other variables like a potential modification of AGIA.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DAVID KEANE,  Vice President, Government  Affairs, BG  Group said                                                               
they still  support the AGIA  process and he wanted  to emphasize                                                               
why BG  supported AGIA in the  first place. Last year  he said BG                                                               
wanted to see a pipeline  developed under an open and transparent                                                               
process. As  explorers they need  to know when they  find natural                                                               
gas  they will  be able  to acquire  pipeline capacity  through a                                                               
fair and equitable process. AGIA provides this process.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  said BG  gave serious  consideration to  submitting an                                                               
application under AGIA  and developed a bid based  upon using LNG                                                               
exports as an  enabler of the larger highway  project. It assumed                                                               
2.7 Bcf/day  of initial  gas supply  after gas  conditioning; 500                                                               
Mcf/day of  that would be  consumed in the local  Alaska domestic                                                               
market, which  would leave about  2.2 Bcf/day to be  delivered to                                                               
the LNG  facility. He said an  LNG export project seemed  to be a                                                               
natural fit  for BG, because  it is  a significant player  in the                                                               
global LNG  industry and it is  the largest importer of  LNG into                                                               
the  U.S.  importing approximately  55  percent  of all  the  LNG                                                               
entering the U.S. market in 2007.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:13:18 AM                                                                                                                   
He said their  bid was developed to meet the  needs of the state,                                                               
the federal  government, the market  and BG, but  ultimately they                                                               
were not able  to satisfy those requirements. The  bid called for                                                               
two-phase project with  the first phase being  the development of                                                               
an  800-mile pipeline  from  Prudhoe  Bay to  Valdez  and an  LNG                                                               
export plant followed by phase  two, which included a pipeline to                                                               
be  constructed  at a  later  date  from  Delta Junction  to  the                                                               
Canadian border.  BG believed  that LNG could  act as  an enabler                                                               
facilitating  the larger  highway pipeline  project to  the Lower                                                               
48.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
11:13:36 AM                                                                                                                   
To  make an  LNG  project  viable, BG  looked  at which  existing                                                               
markets could  support a world  class export facility.  It became                                                               
very  clear that  those were  the Asia  Pacific (AP)  markets. He                                                               
reminded them  that the West  Coast of  the United States  has no                                                               
import  terminals; so  the  AP  markets are  the  ones, at  least                                                               
initially,  that could  support  the high  cost  of building  the                                                               
infrastructure.  He  elaborated  that   the  world  is  currently                                                               
supply-short of LNG and Asian  buyers are purchasing new supplies                                                               
on an  oil index at  prices close to  oil parity. He  said, "BG's                                                               
strategy was to  leverage this demand at today's  high oil prices                                                               
to cover the high cost of the initial pipeline."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:15:00 AM                                                                                                                   
He reported that  the total cost for the  initial three-train LNG                                                               
project along  with the  pipeline and  development costs  was $22                                                               
billion U.S. 2007 dollars; phase  one of was all-Alaskan and kept                                                               
the option of a Canadian  line open. Initially the pipeline would                                                               
have  been  oversized to  accommodate  LNG  volumes and  domestic                                                               
sales of about  2.7 Bcf/day and after that  additional volumes of                                                               
3.5 -  4.0 Bcf/day to  Valdez or additional  LNG trains or  to be                                                               
transported to the Lower 48.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He said  the pipeline  from Prudhoe Bay  to Delta  Junction would                                                               
have been 48  inches and 42 inches from Delta  Junction to Valdez                                                               
with an option to take the gas at a later date to [indisc.].                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:16:12 AM                                                                                                                   
The  reason BG  used  a  two-phase approach  was  because of  its                                                               
concern over  insufficient amounts of proven  reserves to support                                                               
the  development of  a larger  highway project.  He believed  the                                                               
when the smaller  LNG project was monetized  that would encourage                                                               
more exploration that would result  in proven reserves that would                                                               
provide  support   for  financing   of  the   larger  Transcanada                                                               
pipeline.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KEANE said  legislators  should not  focus  on an  either/or                                                               
solution  or look  at any  project  out of  Alaska in  isolation,                                                               
because he thought  there would be enough gas  long-term to serve                                                               
both projects. He  said BG would have located  their LNG facility                                                               
in Valdez  where other  facilities would  have also  included LPG                                                               
(liquefied petroleum  gas) extraction  plant. The  initial design                                                               
of  the  LNG  facility  in Valdez  would  have  accommodated  2.2                                                               
Bcf/day  that would  include  three 5.1  million  tons per  annum                                                               
trains including liquid storage and vessel loading facilities.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
He said  their project  also identified  additional opportunities                                                               
to  have  an NGL  (natural  gas  liquids) fractionation  facility                                                               
located in Delta Junction which  would have extracted the heavier                                                               
hydro-carbons from  the gas stream  and allowed those  NGLs (such                                                               
as propane) to be sold and distributed throughout the state.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
11:18:06 AM                                                                                                                   
Their  application  would  have  most  likely  been  deemed  non-                                                               
conforming  by AGIA  because it  couldn't meet  all of  the "must                                                               
haves."  These conditions  were  related  to securing  additional                                                               
consortium  members,  requiring BG  Group  board  approval and  a                                                               
declaratory  order from  the FERC  confirming the  jurisdictional                                                               
assumptions underlying the  bid, which was that  the pipeline and                                                               
Phase one would be federally regulated.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:19:00 AM                                                                                                                   
The reasons  BG decided not  to submit an application  under AGIA                                                               
are  because  it didn't  own  natural  gas  reserves and  had  no                                                               
pipeline partner, the high cost  of capital along with escalating                                                               
costs, political and reputational  risks, possible loss of market                                                               
opportunities  due to  possible  schedule  delays and  regulatory                                                               
uncertainty for an LNG export scheme.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
However,  Mr.  Keane  said  just  because  BG  didn't  submit  an                                                               
application doesn't mean it is  not interested in Alaska or AGIA.                                                               
On the  contrary, he  said BG is  actively exploring  for natural                                                               
gas in  the foothills of  the North  Slope and the  eastern North                                                               
Slope. This  winter its partner,  Anadarko, will be  drilling two                                                               
exploratory  wells in  the  foothills and  will  be completing  a                                                               
third  well in  the  Jacob's  Ladder area  of  the eastern  North                                                               
Slope.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  said "BG  continues to be  interested in  developing a                                                               
significant  exploration  and  production  business  in  Alaska."                                                               
Their exploration  program calls for them  to spend approximately                                                               
$100  million net  over the  next three  years and  that will  be                                                               
critical  for  future  investment  decisions.  Beyond  that  time                                                               
horizon will be the degree  of certainty they will have regarding                                                               
their  ability  to  secure   pipeline  capacity.  Therefore  they                                                               
believe  it is  critical  for the  future of  Alaska  to get  the                                                               
infrastructure right.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
11:21:47 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  WAGONER asked  if the  U.S. Department  of Energy  (DOE)                                                               
would  even allow  ANS gas  to  be liquefied  and transported  to                                                               
anywhere  else  than  the U.S.  especially  considering  the  $18                                                               
billion  federal  guarantee.  He  knows  there  is  no  receiving                                                               
capacity  on the  West  Coast and  if the  FERC  didn't allow  an                                                               
export license BG  would have to transport to the  Gulf of Mexico                                                               
and BG  already imports a lot  of gas there. He  asked what their                                                               
capacity was  for additional  importation to  the Gulf  Coast and                                                               
ability to get it back to the U.S.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE replied that exporting  LNG outside of the U.S. carried                                                               
significant  political risk,  but even  under a  highway project,                                                               
the natural gas that comes out  of Alaska will ultimately go to a                                                               
foreign company  before reaching the  Lower 48 or not.  He didn't                                                               
foresee terminals  being located on  the West Coast at  this time                                                               
and moving gas to the Gulf is almost cost prohibitive.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:23:34 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR WAGONER  asked if  that is  because BG's  current vessels                                                               
are too large to go through the Panama Canal.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE replied yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  asked if  an LNG  plant were  to be  built, what                                                               
would  be  the difference  in  tariff  rate  from the  LNG  plant                                                               
delivered to someplace in the  U.S. as opposed to being delivered                                                               
to Chicago through a pipeline.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  answered that  BG looked briefly  at tariff  rates and                                                               
felt  that the  tariff of  selling gas  to the  AP markets  had a                                                               
better netback.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:24:36 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR WAGONER said one of  the most important things coming off                                                               
the North  Slope for the state  of Alaska is going  to be liquids                                                               
and  propanes are  good  for fuel  in remote  areas.  But he  was                                                               
thinking more of  the ethane part of it and  the marketability of                                                               
having a plant  similar to the Nova plant  in Alberta established                                                               
in the Cook  Inlet area around Pt. MacKenzie or  on the Peninsula                                                               
to process  the ethanes.  The projection  is 120,000  barrels per                                                               
day of ethane  and an 80,000 barrel-a-day  plant involves 600-800                                                               
long-term jobs.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:25:27 AM                                                                                                                   
MR.  KEANE answered  that  BG is  not involved  in  NGLs. It  was                                                               
considering  developing  an  NGL extraction  plant  for  propanes                                                               
(primarily)  in Delta  Junction. But  BG is  not involved  in the                                                               
marketing of it;  so it would have looked for  an Alaskan partner                                                               
to develop that business.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:26:17 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked him to  elaborate on why BG  didn't apply.                                                               
Didn't they negotiate with the folks with gas?                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  replied that BG  didn't have any discussions  with the                                                               
people  who own  the gas,  but with  a major  interstate pipeline                                                               
within the U.S. that eventually withdrew.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN asked  why BG  didn't talk  with the  people who                                                               
have the gas.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  replied that they  were going  to do that.  They think                                                               
it's very  important for the  big three producers to  be included                                                               
in the process.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if BG's  capital costs  included partners.                                                               
Were there are other risks involved?                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE answered his concern  was with capital escalation above                                                               
the $22 billion  original cost of the project. For  every year of                                                               
delay the tariff  was greatly increased and most  of those delays                                                               
they would have no control over.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked if his  capital cost point  wasn't capital                                                               
structure.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE replied no sir; it was capital cost.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  asked him  to elaborate on  how gas  parity with                                                               
oil relates to the Japanese LNG market.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KEANE answered  the AP  market gas  price competes  with the                                                               
price of crude oil, but in  the U.S. its gas for gas competition.                                                               
He said  BG provides  30 percent  of spot LNG  going into  the AP                                                               
market.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:29:45 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEDMAN asked  him to elaborate on why  the gas contracts                                                               
are getting shorter.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  replied the market  has changed considerably  over the                                                               
last four or  five years and is becoming  more flexible. However,                                                               
some companies are still signing  long-term LNG contracts of 20 -                                                               
25 years.  He said it seemed  that a spot market  was starting to                                                               
evolve, but  that the cost of  developing liquifaction facilities                                                               
was definitely slowing it down.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked him how feasible  it would be to bring gas in                                                               
through the Baja entry point.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  replied that  Baja already has  more than  an adequate                                                               
supply and  the ANS LNG  would be some  of the highest  priced in                                                               
market. The netbacks didn't make economic sense.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
11:31:52 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  WAGONER  asked  how  many  wells  BG  is  drilling  with                                                               
Anadarko this year.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  answered that  Anadarko is drilling  two wells  in the                                                               
foothills and one  well is being completed that  was started last                                                               
year on the eastern North Slope.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  said  is  seems  like  their  drilling  program                                                               
indicates  they think  there will  be a  way to  get that  gas to                                                               
market.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE answered that was correct.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER said  BG and TransCanada's proposals  have an 18-                                                               
month  differential  for the  first  open  season and  asked  how                                                               
important those 18 months are.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KEANE replied  clearly having  an open  season a  little bit                                                               
later makes  more sense,  because a  lot of  work will  have been                                                               
done and  there will be more  certainty about what is  there. The                                                               
concern with having  it early is that one wouldn't  know what the                                                               
price  will   be  for  transport  capacity.   Clearly  Alaska  is                                                               
competing with other markets either  for gas supply into the U.S.                                                               
or  gas  supply   into  other  markets  such   as  Asia  Pacific.                                                               
Scheduling will be important and that was one of BG's concerns.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
11:34:37 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR WAGONER  asked long-term  if the pipeline  proposal falls                                                               
flat, would  it be a  viable opportunity for them  to manufacture                                                               
liquids from  the gas that are  currently on the North  Slope and                                                               
ship them down the existing line.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  replied he wasn't qualified  to answer that and  BG is                                                               
not involved in the gas to liquids industry.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked him  to expound  more on  the non-conforming                                                               
elements of their application.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  responded because BG  lost its pipeline  partner, they                                                               
would have had  to secure another pipeline partner  to manage the                                                               
pipeline. While BG is good  at exploration and production of LNG,                                                               
it doesn't have  the expertise to manage a  pipeline. And because                                                               
BG  didn't  have  a  pipeline   partner  it  couldn't  submit  an                                                               
application  that would  have  to  be approved  by  the BG  Group                                                               
board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
11:36:39 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if restarting  the AGIA process  again would                                                               
"up the likelihood" of BG's potentially being an applicant.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KEANE answered  there would  have still  been the  political                                                               
risk in terms  of what the Alaskan delegation just  said about an                                                               
LNG export  project. If those  concerns were  somewhat mitigated,                                                               
BG is still interested in LNG.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS asked how much it  would cost if they built the LNG                                                               
facility in Valdez and what employment would it provide.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KEANE replied  it would  cost  $7-$8 billion  and provide  a                                                               
substantial number of jobs.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HUGGINS  asked if he had  any suggestions for the  state to                                                               
consider.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KEANE replied  his concern  with  the pipeline  and the  LNG                                                               
facility  was  he  couldn't  see  how  the  FERC  could  actually                                                               
regulate  the pipeline  primarily because  it's sort  of the  fox                                                               
guarding the  henhouse in  terms of  cost and  wellhead netbacks.                                                               
The  pipeline  operator  would  want   to  make  sure  they  were                                                               
recovering  their  costs  with  a fair  return  and  the  state's                                                               
motivation might not be the same.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
11:39:54 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR WAGONER  said the market  for LNG  in Japan is  closer in                                                               
value to oil than gas, so  why would anybody even want to produce                                                               
LNG in one  part of the U.S.  and ship it to another  "or is that                                                               
just a spot market?"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEANE  replied that it  is a continuous market.  Japan, Korea                                                               
and Taiwan have limited indigenous  natural gas supply. So having                                                               
the  ability  to  buy  long-term natural  gas  supplies  an  OECD                                                               
(Organization for Economic  Co-operation and Development) country                                                               
means a lot to them.  Senator Wagoner was absolutely correct; you                                                               
wouldn't supply  gas from Alaska  into any terminals on  the West                                                               
Coast of the U.S.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HUGGINS thanked  him for  his comments  and adjourned  the                                                               
meeting at 11:42:09 AM.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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